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Liverpool Street zero milepost

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MB2013

Posts: 3
Liverpool Street zero milepost - Posted: September 28, 2013 - 3:54 PM Quote and reply
The 1998 Anglia region Quail gives 0m00ch for all platforms at Liverpool Street. This is not correct for 17 and 18 as the buffers are further away from the concourse but is this accurate for the other platforms and does this correspond to the 0m00ch prior to the rebuilding completed in 1991.

Also can anyone confirm the correct miles and chains for ALL Liverpool Street platforms prior to rebuiding. One so far unconfirmed source gives 11 to 18 as 0m02ch

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13102

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Re: Liverpool Street zero milepost - Posted: September 28, 2013 - 10:33 PM Quote and reply
MB2013 said:
The 1998 Anglia region Quail gives 0m00ch for all platforms at Liverpool Street. This is not correct for 17 and 18 as the buffers are further away from the concourse but is this accurate for the other platforms and does this correspond to the 0m00ch prior to the rebuilding completed in 1991.

Also can anyone confirm the correct miles and chains for ALL Liverpool Street platforms prior to rebuiding. One so far unconfirmed source gives 11 to 18 as 0m02ch


I have a "Diesel Enthusiasts Pocket Guide" by Michael Oakley in November 1984 that says the zero is at the buffers of the longest platforms 9 & 10.

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MB2013

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Re: Liverpool Street zero milepost - Posted: September 29, 2013 - 10:24 AM Quote and reply
Thanks. It would seem that Liverpool Street today should be recorded as about 0m05ch. Assuming the buffers on 9/10 were moved back to be level with those on 8 visible to the right of this picture:

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', 1) . '
'

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8001F

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Re: Liverpool Street zero milepost - Posted: September 29, 2013 - 2:31 PM Quote and reply
MB2013 said:
Thanks. It would seem that Liverpool Street today should be recorded as about 0m05ch. Assuming the buffers on 9/10 were moved back to be level with those on 8 visible to the right of this picture:

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', 70, '
', 1) . '
'

The buck stops here! Now I must admit that in my Norwich Line chart I took my predecessor's distances as correct as it is a difficult location to measure. In the forthcoming Southend Victoria chart it is pointed out that the recently erected NR posts on the line seem to be measured from 0m 02 chains (NR's new zero?) at Liverpool St as opposed to the older ones measured from zero(?) There is a similar scenario at Shenfield where there is a three chain adjustment towards Norwich.
Looking at the 1916 Town Plan on Old Maps there are sidings between Platforms 9/10 extending to the back of the Great Eastern Hotel around three chains further south from the BS at 11-16**. Using the FB at 0m 62ch as a "certain point" in relation to the current MPs and measuring back with Google Earth shows the sidings' end to be almost certainly where the Zero MP should be; fortunately the old street layouts are much the same as today so comparisons are not too difficult. **The other platforms seem to be 2 chains nearer Stratford.
Not very scientific but next time I'm at Liverpool St I'll have to do some pacing; thanks for drawing this to my attention.
IU

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MB2013

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Re: Liverpool Street zero milepost - Posted: September 29, 2013 - 4:24 PM Quote and reply
'' . wordwrap ('http://www.davros.org/rail/diagrams/old_liverpool_street.gif', 70, '
', 1) . '
'

may be of use although no distances are given. A complication is that platforms 1 and 2 were orignally through platforms on a connection to what is now the circle line 21 plus 3 chains from Liverpool Street to the junction according to

'' . wordwrap ('http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/93/Aldgate%2C_Bishopsgate%2C_Haydon_Square%2C_Liverpool_Street%2C_Mansion_House%2C_Spitalfields_%26_Whitechapel_RJD_45.JPG', 70, '
', 1) . '
'


but no help in determining the original zero



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8001F

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Re: Liverpool Street zero milepost - Posted: September 30, 2013 - 11:31 AM Quote and reply
MB2013 said:
'' . wordwrap ('http://www.davros.org/rail/diagrams/old_liverpool_street.gif', 70, '
', 1) . '
'

may be of use although no distances are given. A complication is that platforms 1 and 2 were orignally through platforms on a connection to what is now the circle line 21 plus 3 chains from Liverpool Street to the junction according to

'' . wordwrap ('http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/93/Aldgate%2C_Bishopsgate%2C_Haydon_Square%2C_Liverpool_Street%2C_Mansion_House%2C_Spitalfields_%26_Whitechapel_RJD_45.JPG', 70, '
', 1) . '
'


but no help in determining the original zero



The connecting line is an unlikely point for a zero MP but then so was the Waterloo to W East connection. The end on point on the RCH map is 2 chains longer than the Liverpool St distance which doesn't eliminate it. Wikipedia states that the extension of the line from Bishopsgate station to Liverpool St line was specifically done to facilitate the Underground connection forming an early Crossrail at considerably less expense.
I forgot about Cheshunt where I located a 2 chain error and this is consistent with the line being measured to the south from the end of the Pfms 9/10 lines and north thereof from the 11-16 buffer stop line. So it seems there are two legitimate zero points at Liverpool Street, the original applying as far as Cheshunt/Shenfield and a revised one from the buffer stops onwards to Cambridge, Norwich and Southend-on-Sea Victoria.
IU 30.09.13

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djackman

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Re: Liverpool Street zero milepost - Posted: October 1, 2013 - 10:02 PM Quote and reply
MB2013 said:
Thanks. It would seem that Liverpool Street today should be recorded as about 0m05ch. Assuming the buffers on 9/10 were moved back to be level with those on 8 visible to the right of this picture:

'' . wordwrap ('http://www.flickr.com/photos/25347284@N04/3295495077/sizes/o/in/set-72157623145315651/
', 70, '
', 1) . '
'

I don't think its as much as 0m05ch. Liverpool Street is pretty much unique in that the buffer stops actually got moved back during the rebuilding - look at MB2013's photograph and you can see that the frontage of the Great Eastern Hotel was much further from the buffers of platform 8 than it is now. 1-8 got moved back a couple of chains, 9-10 shortened by a similar amount; on the East side 11-18 used to be level but 17-18 couldn't be extended while but 11-16 got moved back by about one coach length. Depending on where you think the original zero point was - and I've always accepted Oakley on this - that makes the buffers currently 0-02 or 0-03.

David

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