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Thameslink Class 700's

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Hartill

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Thameslink Class 700's - Posted: October 13, 2018 - 9:32 PM Quote and reply
These unts are very quick off the mark, downhill from St Albans is an ideal start but MP18, 1.91 miles in 1m 46.3sec at 98mph is the fastest start I have ever made (Shanghai Airport Maglev excepted). Even time in under 2 minutes. 0-60 was 43.4 sec. NB out of West Hampstead I recorded a 49.5s time with out the benifit of a down hill start.

North bound the West Hampstead St Albans start stop working time is 11 min, thats 87.5mph !

There does seem to be a problem with keeping the sets at line speed with quite large variations in speed between 90 and 100mph on the fast line.
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26006

Posts: 67
Re: Thameslink Class 700's - Posted: October 14, 2018 - 12:29 AM Quote and reply
Hartill said:
These unts are very quick off the mark, downhill from St Albans is an ideal start but MP18, 1.91 miles in 1m 46.3sec at 98mph is the fastest start I have ever made (Shanghai Airport Maglev excepted). Even time in under 2 minutes. 0-60 was 43.4 sec. NB out of West Hampstead I recorded a 49.5s time with out the benifit of a down hill start.

North bound the West Hampstead St Albans start stop working time is 11 min, thats 87.5mph !

There does seem to be a problem with keeping the sets at line speed with quite large variations in speed between 90 and 100mph on the fast line.

Yes...i identified these some time ago as probably the 2nd fastest EMU to 100mph (when powered by 25KV AC)- and definitely under 2 mins. It is reckoned the Class 395 'Javelin' is as fast - if not faster, but there are no station starts with level and unrestricted starts that allow us to reliably compare - unless someone organises a 395 rail tour over conventional 125mph metals such as the ECML.
Sadly - on 'Southern' metals using 750vDC - the performance - in common with most other 750vDC EMU's - is disappointing.

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Sprod

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Re: Thameslink Class 700's - Posted: October 14, 2018 - 12:26 PM Quote and reply
With Flitwick being my local station I can endorse the comments made about the high acceleration of the Class 700. Although the first station south of Bedford, southbound trains often wait time for two minutes before departing. The WTT timings appear to take no account of the superior performance. The net result is that Thameslink trains either wait at stations or drivers enter a station stop at funereal speed.
The worst scenario is at St Albans, where trains can wait time at Platform 4 (Down Fast). Yet there are fears about track capacity conflicts with Down EMT services!
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tester

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Re: Thameslink Class 700's - Posted: October 14, 2018 - 6:59 PM Quote and reply
Sprod said:
With Flitwick being my local station I can endorse the comments made about the high acceleration of the Class 700. Although the first station south of Bedford, southbound trains often wait time for two minutes before departing. The WTT timings appear to take no account of the superior performance. The net result is that Thameslink trains either wait at stations or drivers enter a station stop at funereal speed.
The worst scenario is at St Albans, where trains can wait time at Platform 4 (Down Fast). Yet there are fears about track capacity conflicts with Down EMT services!


Yes, the timings appear to be based on Class 319 performance rather than the superior 700's. It also seems a shame and maybe short-sighted that then 700's were not designed for a top speed of at least 110mph or even 125mph for those sections where they use the MML fast lines - notably between West Hampstead and Harpenden. For capacity to be increased - grade separated junctions are needed for the semi fast trains to join and leave the fast lines such of West Hampstead and at Radlett / Harpenden Junctions. also it does seem that St Pancras MML is limited by only having 4 platforms!
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Sprod

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Re: Thameslink Class 700's - Posted: October 14, 2018 - 7:18 PM Quote and reply
Yes, it is a disaster that the Class 700 is limited to 100 mph. The counter-argument by the DfT that there was a need for an integrated fleet is a nonsense. The 8-car sets for the inner service need to be divorced from the outer 12-car sets. The Class 717 design would be more appropriate for the inner services.
A Down Fast to Down Slow non-conflicting junction in the vicinity of Harpenden is vital for long-term reliability. Not easy to identify a precise location, especially in a NIMBY world. Meanwhile there is the nonsense of northbound Thameslink trains waiting time at St Albans, then being held at Harpenden South for a southbound EMT to precede, a conflict which could be avoided with an earlier feasible St Albans departure.
The DfT have a lot to answer for!
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26006

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Re: Thameslink Class 700's - Posted: October 16, 2018 - 1:12 AM Quote and reply
Getting back to the Class 700's, my own timing from St Albans southbound saw 100mph reached in 2 min 3 sec compared to a best of 2 min 29 sec for a Class 360 on a similar downhill gradient.

Stunningly - In terms of time to distance from a standing start - this only seems to equate to an advantage of no more than 3 seconds at the point in which the Class 360 finally achieves 100mph - around 2.7 miles!!


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tester

Posts: 16
Re: Thameslink Class 700's - Posted: October 24, 2018 - 3:33 PM Quote and reply
26006 said:
Getting back to the Class 700's, my own timing from St Albans southbound saw 100mph reached in 2 min 3 sec compared to a best of 2 min 29 sec for a Class 360 on a similar downhill gradient.

Stunningly - In terms of time to distance from a standing start - this only seems to equate to an advantage of no more than 3 seconds at the point in which the Class 360 finally achieves 100mph - around 2.7 miles!!
My best 0 to 100mph time down the 1 in 176 from St Albans now stands at 1 min 50 seconds and 1.8 miles.



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